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	<title>Comments for The Long Eighteenth</title>
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	<description>For anyone interested in the long 18th century</description>
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		<title>Comment on Ch. 3: &#8220;Unspeakable Events&#8221; by James Robert Wood by James Wood</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/unspeakable-events/#comment-19052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Wood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 18:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=1979#comment-19052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this David, I&#039;m glad to hear you are working on the periodical essay. As you can probably tell I&#039;m very interested in The Spectator at the moment--in fact an essay of mine is coming out in Eighteenth Century Life on it. Mr. Spectator&#039;s anarchic list has not been much discussed in recent criticism--in fact not all to my knowledge--but it does suggest a kind of associative energy that is not really associated with Addison and Steele. There&#039;s clearly more we can do with the list--one quick thought is that the progression of the list fairly closely mirrors The Spectator itself, which begins by fastening Mr. Spectator to a &quot;small Hereditary Estate&quot; and then follows his mind ranging over the human world. What the list suggests is not the well ordered &quot;equal wide survey&quot; of James Thomson&#039;s The Seasons and John Barrell&#039;s book of the same name, but rather an associative zigzagging that quickly takes Mr Spectator to the &quot;ghosts&quot; haunting the culture of taste: including slavery. But the fact of slavery is not repressed in The Spectator. It&#039;s right there in front of us, fully readable on the surface. 

Although it is far from clear that Steele, the absentee owner of a plantation, saw slavery itself as  an immoral institution in itself, The Spectator does not presuppose a wall of separation between high culture and forced labour. Certainly The Spectator seems closer to Gikandi&#039;s way of thinking about how the arts relate to the economic speculation and exploitation than, say, Matthew Arnold&#039;s Culture and Anarchy essays.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this David, I&#8217;m glad to hear you are working on the periodical essay. As you can probably tell I&#8217;m very interested in The Spectator at the moment&#8211;in fact an essay of mine is coming out in Eighteenth Century Life on it. Mr. Spectator&#8217;s anarchic list has not been much discussed in recent criticism&#8211;in fact not all to my knowledge&#8211;but it does suggest a kind of associative energy that is not really associated with Addison and Steele. There&#8217;s clearly more we can do with the list&#8211;one quick thought is that the progression of the list fairly closely mirrors The Spectator itself, which begins by fastening Mr. Spectator to a &#8220;small Hereditary Estate&#8221; and then follows his mind ranging over the human world. What the list suggests is not the well ordered &#8220;equal wide survey&#8221; of James Thomson&#8217;s The Seasons and John Barrell&#8217;s book of the same name, but rather an associative zigzagging that quickly takes Mr Spectator to the &#8220;ghosts&#8221; haunting the culture of taste: including slavery. But the fact of slavery is not repressed in The Spectator. It&#8217;s right there in front of us, fully readable on the surface. </p>
<p>Although it is far from clear that Steele, the absentee owner of a plantation, saw slavery itself as  an immoral institution in itself, The Spectator does not presuppose a wall of separation between high culture and forced labour. Certainly The Spectator seems closer to Gikandi&#8217;s way of thinking about how the arts relate to the economic speculation and exploitation than, say, Matthew Arnold&#8217;s Culture and Anarchy essays.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Remarks on “The Ontology of Play: Mimicry and the Counterculture of Taste,” Chapter 6 of Slavery and the Culture of Taste by Simon Gikandi by CarlD</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/remarks-on-the-ontology-of-play-mimicry-and-the-counterculture-of-taste-chapter-6-of-slavery-and-the-culture-of-taste-by-simon-gikandi/#comment-19051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarlD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 17:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2028#comment-19051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m really enjoying this discussion, and learning more and more appreciation for this amazing book from it.

I keep wondering if the (to me) odd inflections of the theoretical pastiche, and of evidence selection and handling, have to do with Gikandi&#039;s standpoint of critique. As you say Dave, there&#039;s really nothing more than gestures here toward the Marxian tradition; I too missed Bourdieu, and although the link between slavery and Europe&#039;s wealth and power so well analyzed by Blackburn is part of the critical equipment of the book, exploitation is not really the problem here.

So what is? I have to admit I&#039;ve had some trouble staying focused on the book long enough to feel confident I understand it; this is because every couple of pages my momentum and trust is disrupted by an optional reading or arbitrary presentation of evidence, such as the one from ch. 3 I discussed at length in my second post, or Douglass&#039; Aunt Hester story. More on that in a second. But to anticipate the point, I think I disagree with you that the repression metanarrative is an optional overlay; I think that&#039;s where Gikandi&#039;s standpoint of critique is, I think it shapes how he sees and handles evidence, I think it therefore shapes the evidence that&#039;s available for other uses in the book, and so I don&#039;t think the book can be (or even should be, depending on what you want to accomplish) saved from it.

OK, back to the Aunt Hester story since we&#039;ve been having so much fun with it. What Gikandi (and some readers here) do with that is really interesting. I kindled up a copy of Douglass&#039; &lt;em&gt;Narrative&lt;/em&gt; and confirmed the undeniable sexual dimension of the master&#039;s relation to Hester, and libidinal quality of his violence. Douglass describes him as a cruel and hardened man who sometimes took &quot;great pleasure in whipping a slave,&quot; and Hester as &quot;a woman of noble form, and of graceful proportions,&quot; whose offense on the occasion was to be caught in the company of a man other than the master.

&quot;Clearly, the act of punishing the slave was not purely instrumental - it was bound up with perverse pleasures,&quot; Gikandi rightly says. But where is the clarity? In Douglass, but not in Gikandi, who quotes the whole description of the beating, but NOT the setup passages in which the libidinal context is clearly established. The beating itself is so lacking in any evidence of libidity that readers here had to read it in, imagining and making much of a garment-ripping that is not in either the quoted material or anywhere else in the text, and taking a stand on facts not in evidence that easily could have been. Why did Gikandi do that to us?

Strikingly, the plainly-stated sexual motive of the mulatto woman&#039;s flogging in Stedman is also left off-stage, in the midst of an interpretation confidently asserting the self-evidence of this motive. Instead, we are asked to accept a speculative assertion of a more universal eroticization based on the fact that the woman (actually not a mulatto but a samboe, a distinction that mattered in context) resembled Stedman&#039;s mulatto mistress Joanna. Why? Apparently because all attractive mixed-race women look alike and stimulate the same perverse lusts.

Douglass, it turns out, was very interested in assessing the slaveholders&#039; libidinal relationship to slavery, which was not uniform. Some, starting with his likely father and by his estimate thousands of others, saw enslaved women as a sexual resource, objects of &quot;lust&quot; and &quot;wicked desires.&quot; He is not coy about this; he explicitly refers to and leverages sexual outrage. In contrast Mr. Severe, the overseer, &quot;seemed to take pleasure in manifesting his fiendish barbarity,&quot; while his replacement, Mr. Hopkins, &quot;whipped, but seemed to take no pleasure in it,&quot; and Mr. Gore &quot;seemed to do so from a sense of duty.&quot; These are variations on the theme of slavery&#039;s brutality, but they complicate the story of its sexualization, and find no place in Gikandi&#039;s discussion. Why?

I also found Stedman at the Internet Archive and spent a sleepless night reading through both volumes. They are a fascinating example of the &#039;rhizomatic&#039; style of presentation JRW and DM have been talking about in relation to &lt;em&gt;The Spectator&lt;/em&gt;. Gikandi tells us that Stedman &quot;knew, for example, that his expedition was in Suriname to protect the sources of the coffee that had become a major source of pleasure in European high culture. Stedman easily recognized the connection between coffee, a valued stimulant, and the violence of slavery.&quot; But actually what connections Stedman &#039;knew&#039; and &#039;recognized&#039; is by no means so clear in a text that jumps without transition or apparent reflection between descriptions of military campaigns, accounts of &#039;shocking&#039; slave tortures and admirable slave lives, reports of brutal disciplining of soldiers and seamen, romantic transports about the lovely and virtuous Joanna, and naturalistic catalogs of the flora and fauna of the region.

A striking feature of the text to current sensibilities is the extraordinary scale and scope of routine violence, mayhem, disease, and death in the colony. Stedman fights duels with severe woundings for small insults; suffers a series of gruesome tropical diseases and afflictions, of which many of his company die after lengthy agonies; whole units are wiped out, the survivors taken and tortured; rebels mangle and kill plantation families; cockroaches eat his spare shoes and undies. By the time the rebel Gikandi cites and Blake depicts is broken on the rack, enough mutineers, murderers and thieves have suffered the same punishment that the only relief from the banality of barbarism is Stedman&#039;s notably more sympathetic depiction of the victim. Gikandi is therefore quite right about the spectacular re-representation of the slaves&#039; torture for a European audience; Europeans whose bones were publically and spectacularly being splintered for offenses with which Stedman felt no sympathy are only briefly remarked. It might seem to make practical sense in this context that punitive violence would need something &#039;extra&#039;, as it did in much of Europe until well into the 19th century and as Gikandi acknowledges. So why does Gikandi still insist that the ubiquity of human and environmental violence &quot;doesn&#039;t explain the necessity of the spectacle and the exhibitionary order, the scopic regime of slavery...?&quot;

Prompted by something Dave&#039;s been saying I pulled up Foucault&#039;s &lt;em&gt;History of Sexuality&lt;/em&gt; and refreshed my memory on the &#039;repressive hypothesis&#039;. Gikandi makes much of the unspeakability of slavery; like its associated sexualization, it was hidden, denied, repressed, and sublimated into an aestheticized culture of taste that denied its brutal unconscious. In other words despite the parade of theoretical citation, also unreliable as it turns out, the analysis is a throwback to Freud, old school. In his Overture Gikandi tells us he&#039;s going to be an unreliable analyst, and justifies this by the silences of his sources. But in his sources slavery and its uneven sexualization is widely discussed, and not at all hidden; in fact, it&#039;s hidden only in how he treats his sources, approached by assertion and imaginative leap when it&#039;s right there elsewhere in the archive or in those sources themselves, as JRW also notes. &quot;Why has [slavery] been so widely discussed, and what has been said about it? What were the effects of power generated by what was said?,&quot; Foucault might ask.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really enjoying this discussion, and learning more and more appreciation for this amazing book from it.</p>
<p>I keep wondering if the (to me) odd inflections of the theoretical pastiche, and of evidence selection and handling, have to do with Gikandi&#8217;s standpoint of critique. As you say Dave, there&#8217;s really nothing more than gestures here toward the Marxian tradition; I too missed Bourdieu, and although the link between slavery and Europe&#8217;s wealth and power so well analyzed by Blackburn is part of the critical equipment of the book, exploitation is not really the problem here.</p>
<p>So what is? I have to admit I&#8217;ve had some trouble staying focused on the book long enough to feel confident I understand it; this is because every couple of pages my momentum and trust is disrupted by an optional reading or arbitrary presentation of evidence, such as the one from ch. 3 I discussed at length in my second post, or Douglass&#8217; Aunt Hester story. More on that in a second. But to anticipate the point, I think I disagree with you that the repression metanarrative is an optional overlay; I think that&#8217;s where Gikandi&#8217;s standpoint of critique is, I think it shapes how he sees and handles evidence, I think it therefore shapes the evidence that&#8217;s available for other uses in the book, and so I don&#8217;t think the book can be (or even should be, depending on what you want to accomplish) saved from it.</p>
<p>OK, back to the Aunt Hester story since we&#8217;ve been having so much fun with it. What Gikandi (and some readers here) do with that is really interesting. I kindled up a copy of Douglass&#8217; <em>Narrative</em> and confirmed the undeniable sexual dimension of the master&#8217;s relation to Hester, and libidinal quality of his violence. Douglass describes him as a cruel and hardened man who sometimes took &#8220;great pleasure in whipping a slave,&#8221; and Hester as &#8220;a woman of noble form, and of graceful proportions,&#8221; whose offense on the occasion was to be caught in the company of a man other than the master.</p>
<p>&#8220;Clearly, the act of punishing the slave was not purely instrumental &#8211; it was bound up with perverse pleasures,&#8221; Gikandi rightly says. But where is the clarity? In Douglass, but not in Gikandi, who quotes the whole description of the beating, but NOT the setup passages in which the libidinal context is clearly established. The beating itself is so lacking in any evidence of libidity that readers here had to read it in, imagining and making much of a garment-ripping that is not in either the quoted material or anywhere else in the text, and taking a stand on facts not in evidence that easily could have been. Why did Gikandi do that to us?</p>
<p>Strikingly, the plainly-stated sexual motive of the mulatto woman&#8217;s flogging in Stedman is also left off-stage, in the midst of an interpretation confidently asserting the self-evidence of this motive. Instead, we are asked to accept a speculative assertion of a more universal eroticization based on the fact that the woman (actually not a mulatto but a samboe, a distinction that mattered in context) resembled Stedman&#8217;s mulatto mistress Joanna. Why? Apparently because all attractive mixed-race women look alike and stimulate the same perverse lusts.</p>
<p>Douglass, it turns out, was very interested in assessing the slaveholders&#8217; libidinal relationship to slavery, which was not uniform. Some, starting with his likely father and by his estimate thousands of others, saw enslaved women as a sexual resource, objects of &#8220;lust&#8221; and &#8220;wicked desires.&#8221; He is not coy about this; he explicitly refers to and leverages sexual outrage. In contrast Mr. Severe, the overseer, &#8220;seemed to take pleasure in manifesting his fiendish barbarity,&#8221; while his replacement, Mr. Hopkins, &#8220;whipped, but seemed to take no pleasure in it,&#8221; and Mr. Gore &#8220;seemed to do so from a sense of duty.&#8221; These are variations on the theme of slavery&#8217;s brutality, but they complicate the story of its sexualization, and find no place in Gikandi&#8217;s discussion. Why?</p>
<p>I also found Stedman at the Internet Archive and spent a sleepless night reading through both volumes. They are a fascinating example of the &#8216;rhizomatic&#8217; style of presentation JRW and DM have been talking about in relation to <em>The Spectator</em>. Gikandi tells us that Stedman &#8220;knew, for example, that his expedition was in Suriname to protect the sources of the coffee that had become a major source of pleasure in European high culture. Stedman easily recognized the connection between coffee, a valued stimulant, and the violence of slavery.&#8221; But actually what connections Stedman &#8216;knew&#8217; and &#8216;recognized&#8217; is by no means so clear in a text that jumps without transition or apparent reflection between descriptions of military campaigns, accounts of &#8216;shocking&#8217; slave tortures and admirable slave lives, reports of brutal disciplining of soldiers and seamen, romantic transports about the lovely and virtuous Joanna, and naturalistic catalogs of the flora and fauna of the region.</p>
<p>A striking feature of the text to current sensibilities is the extraordinary scale and scope of routine violence, mayhem, disease, and death in the colony. Stedman fights duels with severe woundings for small insults; suffers a series of gruesome tropical diseases and afflictions, of which many of his company die after lengthy agonies; whole units are wiped out, the survivors taken and tortured; rebels mangle and kill plantation families; cockroaches eat his spare shoes and undies. By the time the rebel Gikandi cites and Blake depicts is broken on the rack, enough mutineers, murderers and thieves have suffered the same punishment that the only relief from the banality of barbarism is Stedman&#8217;s notably more sympathetic depiction of the victim. Gikandi is therefore quite right about the spectacular re-representation of the slaves&#8217; torture for a European audience; Europeans whose bones were publically and spectacularly being splintered for offenses with which Stedman felt no sympathy are only briefly remarked. It might seem to make practical sense in this context that punitive violence would need something &#8216;extra&#8217;, as it did in much of Europe until well into the 19th century and as Gikandi acknowledges. So why does Gikandi still insist that the ubiquity of human and environmental violence &#8220;doesn&#8217;t explain the necessity of the spectacle and the exhibitionary order, the scopic regime of slavery&#8230;?&#8221;</p>
<p>Prompted by something Dave&#8217;s been saying I pulled up Foucault&#8217;s <em>History of Sexuality</em> and refreshed my memory on the &#8216;repressive hypothesis&#8217;. Gikandi makes much of the unspeakability of slavery; like its associated sexualization, it was hidden, denied, repressed, and sublimated into an aestheticized culture of taste that denied its brutal unconscious. In other words despite the parade of theoretical citation, also unreliable as it turns out, the analysis is a throwback to Freud, old school. In his Overture Gikandi tells us he&#8217;s going to be an unreliable analyst, and justifies this by the silences of his sources. But in his sources slavery and its uneven sexualization is widely discussed, and not at all hidden; in fact, it&#8217;s hidden only in how he treats his sources, approached by assertion and imaginative leap when it&#8217;s right there elsewhere in the archive or in those sources themselves, as JRW also notes. &#8220;Why has [slavery] been so widely discussed, and what has been said about it? What were the effects of power generated by what was said?,&#8221; Foucault might ask.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gikandi&#8217;s Ch 6: &#8220;The Ontology of Play&#8221; by Dave Mazella</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/gikandis-ch-6-the-ontology-of-play/#comment-19045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Mazella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 22:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2040#comment-19045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read the Weintraub, which was interesting.  From my perspective, a lot of the historical critiques of Habermas (Vickery, Calhoun) have explored these issues, too.  Michael Warner&#039;s Publics and Counter-publics, with its focus on shifting, virtual collectivities of attention rather than more determinate or sociologically ordered groups, might fall in line with what you&#039;re describing. 

I&#039;m not sure I understand your vocabulary of a &quot;field&quot; analytic, though.  It sounds more like anthropology.  The Markell sounds like contemporary political philosophy.  But I&#039;d be curious about how to describe and analyze these kinds of porously organized groups within groups, and the benefits of such an approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the Weintraub, which was interesting.  From my perspective, a lot of the historical critiques of Habermas (Vickery, Calhoun) have explored these issues, too.  Michael Warner&#8217;s Publics and Counter-publics, with its focus on shifting, virtual collectivities of attention rather than more determinate or sociologically ordered groups, might fall in line with what you&#8217;re describing. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand your vocabulary of a &#8220;field&#8221; analytic, though.  It sounds more like anthropology.  The Markell sounds like contemporary political philosophy.  But I&#8217;d be curious about how to describe and analyze these kinds of porously organized groups within groups, and the benefits of such an approach.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gikandi&#8217;s Ch 6: &#8220;The Ontology of Play&#8221; by CarlD</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/gikandis-ch-6-the-ontology-of-play/#comment-19043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarlD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 18:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2040#comment-19043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes! But I think if we shifted to a &#039;field&#039; analytic we wouldn&#039;t need this move at all. The idea of a public sphere, tends toward totality: either there&#039;s &#039;a&#039; completely inclusive public sphere, or there&#039;s a mainstream / normative / hegemonic / dominant public attempting to impose itself at the center, which must then be contested by marginal / subaltern counter-publics with a competing image of community.

I&#039;m not saying this isn&#039;t a truthy story. But down in the data there&#039;s usually nothing like the consistency of agenda or implementation it would take to totalize any particular public, so instead there are lots of publics, at various scales; fields of action with their own spaces, resources, concepts, and practices, more or less permeable to each other, in dynamic interaction. For a pithy conceptual decentering (and demonstration of the principle) see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/rcq/issues/7-2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jeff Weintraub&#039;s short article here&lt;/a&gt; (which became part of a very useful edited volume on the public / private distinction). I think &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Bound-Recognition-Patchen-Markell/dp/0691113823&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Patchen Markell&lt;/em&gt; is also pretty useful.

It can be really hard to see fields in the kinds of sources Gikandi is using, given their rhetorical purification. Sources that express or imagine an image of the world usually don&#039;t textualize messiness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! But I think if we shifted to a &#8216;field&#8217; analytic we wouldn&#8217;t need this move at all. The idea of a public sphere, tends toward totality: either there&#8217;s &#8216;a&#8217; completely inclusive public sphere, or there&#8217;s a mainstream / normative / hegemonic / dominant public attempting to impose itself at the center, which must then be contested by marginal / subaltern counter-publics with a competing image of community.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying this isn&#8217;t a truthy story. But down in the data there&#8217;s usually nothing like the consistency of agenda or implementation it would take to totalize any particular public, so instead there are lots of publics, at various scales; fields of action with their own spaces, resources, concepts, and practices, more or less permeable to each other, in dynamic interaction. For a pithy conceptual decentering (and demonstration of the principle) see <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/rcq/issues/7-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">Jeff Weintraub&#8217;s short article here</a> (which became part of a very useful edited volume on the public / private distinction). I think <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Bound-Recognition-Patchen-Markell/dp/0691113823" rel="nofollow">Patchen Markell is also pretty useful.</p>
<p>It can be really hard to see fields in the kinds of sources Gikandi is using, given their rhetorical purification. Sources that express or imagine an image of the world usually don&#8217;t textualize messiness.</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Gikandi&#8217;s Ch 6: &#8220;The Ontology of Play&#8221; by Dave Mazella</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/gikandis-ch-6-the-ontology-of-play/#comment-19040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Mazella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 13:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2040#comment-19040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely, yes, Warner&#039;s counter-public, with its attendant notions of the vernacular seems absolutely apposite here. This would describe the tensions between public and counter-public seen in the the Coda&#039;s Fragment I, where a slave-coffle is publicly led through the capital during a congressional debate over slavery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, yes, Warner&#8217;s counter-public, with its attendant notions of the vernacular seems absolutely apposite here. This would describe the tensions between public and counter-public seen in the the Coda&#8217;s Fragment I, where a slave-coffle is publicly led through the capital during a congressional debate over slavery.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gikandi&#8217;s Ch 6: &#8220;The Ontology of Play&#8221; by deluciajoellen</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/gikandis-ch-6-the-ontology-of-play/#comment-19039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deluciajoellen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 13:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2040#comment-19039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if the term &quot;counter public&quot; might be useful in the context of this chapter?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the term &#8220;counter public&#8221; might be useful in the context of this chapter?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Remarks on “The Ontology of Play: Mimicry and the Counterculture of Taste,” Chapter 6 of Slavery and the Culture of Taste by Simon Gikandi by Dave Mazella</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/remarks-on-the-ontology-of-play-mimicry-and-the-counterculture-of-taste-chapter-6-of-slavery-and-the-culture-of-taste-by-simon-gikandi/#comment-19033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Mazella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 21:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2028#comment-19033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Melissa, for following this up, and for raising the questions of theory and evidence here. 

My own feeling is that G&#039;s use of theory as pastiche or running commentary does end up distracting readers, even some presumed ideal reader familiar with every name and work cited, since it adds a layer of interpretive work that seems to add relatively little to the most intriguing insights and juxtapositions of his material.

In our discussion, we&#039;ve seen instances where commentators wondered whether a term like &quot;public sphere&quot; was being used in some deliberately inflected way or not, or whether Derrida&#039;s &quot;Structure, Sign, and Play&quot; or &quot;Archive Fever&quot; were being invoked (the answer seems to be no, but see p. 26, n. 95 for &quot;trace&quot;). This may be a matter of stylistic or methodological preference, but I confess to being baffled by the relative absence? unimportance? underemphasis? of Bourdieu&#039;s Distinction, likewise much of the Marxist side of either Caribbean social history or post-structural thought, or the historians of slavery like Blackburn.  In other words, considering the subject matter and the argument, the post-structuralism embraced here seems rather apolitical, and strangely, much more closely aligned with the European &quot;culture of taste&quot; than the post-colonial criticism or cultural studies descended from, say, E.P. Thompson or Gayatri Spivak.

On the question of evidence, I&#039;ve reread the Overture, and G does state that &quot;the questions that I find compelling will not have answers, evidence, or proof, nor will they satisfy any standard of explanation, because my objects of analysis--slavery and enslavement--are surrounded by silence and are submerged under what Patrick Chamoiseau, the Martinican novelist, has called a &quot;web of memories which scorch us with things forgotten and screaming presences&quot; (37).  The problem that I have is that this book, even with these caveats, still remains a scholarly &quot;analysis,&quot; even if it represents a more broadly and eclectically conceived scholarly analysis than perhaps other scholars have done.  Without some acknowledgment or further explanation of its genre, this book itself constitutes another &quot;aesthetic gesture&quot; rather than a &quot;counter-aesthetic&quot; one.  

The problem of dealing with problematic sources to delve into social history is something that Thompson discusses in Customs in Common, and I think Thompson is very useful in his reminders of how the academic historian or literary critic can identify with the landowners or their functionaries in the past. I believe that the answer to this conundrum must lie in the use of as wide an array of sources as one can assemble, very much along the lines of G&#039;s uses of visual and verbal materials here.  Sharon Howard, who works at the Old Bailey, also discussed many of these issues a few years ago at this blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://long18th.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/names-and-people-in-18th-century-sources-i/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Melissa, for following this up, and for raising the questions of theory and evidence here. </p>
<p>My own feeling is that G&#8217;s use of theory as pastiche or running commentary does end up distracting readers, even some presumed ideal reader familiar with every name and work cited, since it adds a layer of interpretive work that seems to add relatively little to the most intriguing insights and juxtapositions of his material.</p>
<p>In our discussion, we&#8217;ve seen instances where commentators wondered whether a term like &#8220;public sphere&#8221; was being used in some deliberately inflected way or not, or whether Derrida&#8217;s &#8220;Structure, Sign, and Play&#8221; or &#8220;Archive Fever&#8221; were being invoked (the answer seems to be no, but see p. 26, n. 95 for &#8220;trace&#8221;). This may be a matter of stylistic or methodological preference, but I confess to being baffled by the relative absence? unimportance? underemphasis? of Bourdieu&#8217;s Distinction, likewise much of the Marxist side of either Caribbean social history or post-structural thought, or the historians of slavery like Blackburn.  In other words, considering the subject matter and the argument, the post-structuralism embraced here seems rather apolitical, and strangely, much more closely aligned with the European &#8220;culture of taste&#8221; than the post-colonial criticism or cultural studies descended from, say, E.P. Thompson or Gayatri Spivak.</p>
<p>On the question of evidence, I&#8217;ve reread the Overture, and G does state that &#8220;the questions that I find compelling will not have answers, evidence, or proof, nor will they satisfy any standard of explanation, because my objects of analysis&#8211;slavery and enslavement&#8211;are surrounded by silence and are submerged under what Patrick Chamoiseau, the Martinican novelist, has called a &#8220;web of memories which scorch us with things forgotten and screaming presences&#8221; (37).  The problem that I have is that this book, even with these caveats, still remains a scholarly &#8220;analysis,&#8221; even if it represents a more broadly and eclectically conceived scholarly analysis than perhaps other scholars have done.  Without some acknowledgment or further explanation of its genre, this book itself constitutes another &#8220;aesthetic gesture&#8221; rather than a &#8220;counter-aesthetic&#8221; one.  </p>
<p>The problem of dealing with problematic sources to delve into social history is something that Thompson discusses in Customs in Common, and I think Thompson is very useful in his reminders of how the academic historian or literary critic can identify with the landowners or their functionaries in the past. I believe that the answer to this conundrum must lie in the use of as wide an array of sources as one can assemble, very much along the lines of G&#8217;s uses of visual and verbal materials here.  Sharon Howard, who works at the Old Bailey, also discussed many of these issues a few years ago at this blog, <a href="http://long18th.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/names-and-people-in-18th-century-sources-i/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Remarks on “The Ontology of Play: Mimicry and the Counterculture of Taste,” Chapter 6 of Slavery and the Culture of Taste by Simon Gikandi by Melissa Mowry</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/remarks-on-the-ontology-of-play-mimicry-and-the-counterculture-of-taste-chapter-6-of-slavery-and-the-culture-of-taste-by-simon-gikandi/#comment-19032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melissa Mowry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 20:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2028#comment-19032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Dave&#039;s reading is spot on and I think it offers a great opportunity to draw in some commentary from the posts on Chapter Four and engage in candid conversation about the nature of Gikandi&#039;s archive, what we&#039;re willing to accept as evidence, the somewhat idiosyncratic role of theory in his work.  For some reason, Gikandi&#039;s discussion of bodies in Chapter 4, particularly his reading of Douglass&#039;s description of his aunt&#039;s whipping and my agreement with him that Hester&#039;s master had a libidinal investment in punishing her, has elicited charges of &quot;trumped up evidence.&quot;  I&#039;m less interested in rebutting this specific charge than using it as a springboard to discuss how we constitute a &quot;body of evidence&quot; or an archive and why discussions of systematic physical brutality and systematic exploitation can be so intellectually uncomfortable.  
A propos of this, I really appreciated Evan&#039;s point that Gikandi&#039;s relationship to theory often seems idiosyncratically citational or evocative, rather than discursive.  I did wonder if the play in the title of chapter 6 was both a reference to &quot;Structure, Sign, and Play&quot;, but also to &quot;Archive Fever&quot; where Derrida writes: &quot;evil for evil&#039;s sake diabolical evil, the existence of the Devil can serve as an excuse for God, because exterior to him anarchic angel and dissident, analogy, the Jew can play the analogous role of economic relief or exonerations assigned to him by the world of the Aryan ideal&quot; (13). For Derrida identity is always a &quot;play&quot; between two positions, an articulation that allows him to think beyond the limits of negativity, which I feel like Gikandi sometimes gets trapped by.  More importantly, though, identity positions are always the fictions that both enable and disable the archive.  What happens, though, and I&#039;ve struggled with this in my own work on 17thc prostitution, when the identity position who&#039;s archive you&#039;re trying to reassemble, has no legal standing, or is not in other important ways, recognizable to its own historical moment?  How do scholars assemble that kind of archive?  What are our ethical and intellectual obligations?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dave&#8217;s reading is spot on and I think it offers a great opportunity to draw in some commentary from the posts on Chapter Four and engage in candid conversation about the nature of Gikandi&#8217;s archive, what we&#8217;re willing to accept as evidence, the somewhat idiosyncratic role of theory in his work.  For some reason, Gikandi&#8217;s discussion of bodies in Chapter 4, particularly his reading of Douglass&#8217;s description of his aunt&#8217;s whipping and my agreement with him that Hester&#8217;s master had a libidinal investment in punishing her, has elicited charges of &#8220;trumped up evidence.&#8221;  I&#8217;m less interested in rebutting this specific charge than using it as a springboard to discuss how we constitute a &#8220;body of evidence&#8221; or an archive and why discussions of systematic physical brutality and systematic exploitation can be so intellectually uncomfortable.<br />
A propos of this, I really appreciated Evan&#8217;s point that Gikandi&#8217;s relationship to theory often seems idiosyncratically citational or evocative, rather than discursive.  I did wonder if the play in the title of chapter 6 was both a reference to &#8220;Structure, Sign, and Play&#8221;, but also to &#8220;Archive Fever&#8221; where Derrida writes: &#8220;evil for evil&#8217;s sake diabolical evil, the existence of the Devil can serve as an excuse for God, because exterior to him anarchic angel and dissident, analogy, the Jew can play the analogous role of economic relief or exonerations assigned to him by the world of the Aryan ideal&#8221; (13). For Derrida identity is always a &#8220;play&#8221; between two positions, an articulation that allows him to think beyond the limits of negativity, which I feel like Gikandi sometimes gets trapped by.  More importantly, though, identity positions are always the fictions that both enable and disable the archive.  What happens, though, and I&#8217;ve struggled with this in my own work on 17thc prostitution, when the identity position who&#8217;s archive you&#8217;re trying to reassemble, has no legal standing, or is not in other important ways, recognizable to its own historical moment?  How do scholars assemble that kind of archive?  What are our ethical and intellectual obligations?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Chapter Five: “Popping Sorrow”: Loss and the Transformation of Servitude by Dave Mazella</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/chapter-five-popping-sorrow-loss-and-the-transformation-of-servitude/#comment-19030</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Mazella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 17:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2020#comment-19030</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Emily, for a very thoughtful reading of G&#039;s chapter.  I was also struck by the ways in which the range of sources (paintings, autobiographical slave narratives, plantation owner&#039;s journals like Beckford&#039;s, and performances) all deepened and complicated each other&#039;s meanings.  

It also seems to me, from my perspective, that the core of the book&#039;s confrontation between the culture of taste and the emergent communities and identities of enslaved people seems to be staged by writers like Douglass and Prince, who can begin to address white readerships to inform them, to use Carl&#039;s earlier terms, that there is a &quot;problem&quot; in their enjoyment of the spectacle of racialized suffering and subjection.  In other words, this seems to be a moment when writers like Equiano, Cugoano, Prince, Douglass and others try to make their white public aware of the moral dissonance surrounding slavery&#039;s practices.  In some ways, the absence of anything like a linear chronology makes it harder for G to highlight the importance of this moment, which I think is an important one, at least from the perspective of the culture of taste.

I also concur that the book&#039;s treatment of performance seems to serve as a conceptual nexus to talk about a variety of issues raised when these two cultures confronted one another: the staged power differential that produced flattery for planters like Beckford, but also opportunities for public expression of melancholia among some performers; coerced affects for slaves in some contexts, but then also possibilities for agency and community-formation.  I also think that the performing and the visual arts are especially important here, because they make it possible to talk about collective and oral experiences ways that feel somewhat less mediated by the slave-owners and their allies.

Finally, it seems to me that the routine commodification of gender in the culture of taste seems to put special pressure on the female slave, especially, as G points out, the &quot;mulatress.&quot;  (190)  Do you have other works in mind besides Prince that might benefit from taking this approach to the performance of sorrow?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Emily, for a very thoughtful reading of G&#8217;s chapter.  I was also struck by the ways in which the range of sources (paintings, autobiographical slave narratives, plantation owner&#8217;s journals like Beckford&#8217;s, and performances) all deepened and complicated each other&#8217;s meanings.  </p>
<p>It also seems to me, from my perspective, that the core of the book&#8217;s confrontation between the culture of taste and the emergent communities and identities of enslaved people seems to be staged by writers like Douglass and Prince, who can begin to address white readerships to inform them, to use Carl&#8217;s earlier terms, that there is a &#8220;problem&#8221; in their enjoyment of the spectacle of racialized suffering and subjection.  In other words, this seems to be a moment when writers like Equiano, Cugoano, Prince, Douglass and others try to make their white public aware of the moral dissonance surrounding slavery&#8217;s practices.  In some ways, the absence of anything like a linear chronology makes it harder for G to highlight the importance of this moment, which I think is an important one, at least from the perspective of the culture of taste.</p>
<p>I also concur that the book&#8217;s treatment of performance seems to serve as a conceptual nexus to talk about a variety of issues raised when these two cultures confronted one another: the staged power differential that produced flattery for planters like Beckford, but also opportunities for public expression of melancholia among some performers; coerced affects for slaves in some contexts, but then also possibilities for agency and community-formation.  I also think that the performing and the visual arts are especially important here, because they make it possible to talk about collective and oral experiences ways that feel somewhat less mediated by the slave-owners and their allies.</p>
<p>Finally, it seems to me that the routine commodification of gender in the culture of taste seems to put special pressure on the female slave, especially, as G points out, the &#8220;mulatress.&#8221;  (190)  Do you have other works in mind besides Prince that might benefit from taking this approach to the performance of sorrow?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gikandi&#8211;Chapter Four: Taste and the Taint of Slavery by CarlD</title>
		<link>http://long18th.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/gikandi-chapter-four-taste-and-the-taint-of-slavery/#comment-19024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarlD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 04:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://long18th.wordpress.com/?p=2003#comment-19024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yup, it&#039;s a case easy to make with good evidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, it&#8217;s a case easy to make with good evidence.</p>
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